confessions
Sunday, March 9th, 2008 at 12:43 pm by annie | Subscribe to this post's RSS feedYou can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
you might want to brew a cup of coffee before you sit down for this one . . .
Please bear with me now as I try to work through my thoughts. Firstly, to understand what I’m about to delve into and why I’m feeling a bit angst-ridden at the moment, i have to spill the beans and let you in on my “semi-secret” mentioned in a previous post:
Weeks ago, when I decided to attend the SNAG conference, I submitted a story pitch to Etsy’s Storque. The PRIMARY reason for my interest in the conference this year was in one single lecture: Bruce Metcalf and Andrew Wagner’s presentation entitled, “D.I.Y, Websites, and Energy: The New Alternative Craft”. I was so excited to hear what these highly-regarded individuals had to say about what I do, what WE, my peers and I, do. Furthermore, I couldn’t wait to bring back information to share with the Etsy community. After all, wouldn’t you agree that Etsy currently stands as the largest force in “D.I.Y, Websites, and Energy: The New Alternative Craft”? The folks at the Storque agreed to let me write a short and sweet article about my SNAG experience to include a few quotes from the lecture, “D.I.Y., Websites and Energy: the New Alternative Craft”, which I attended during my last day in Savannah.
Here begins my turmoil. It turns out that SNAG wasn’t EXACTLY what i thought it would be. What if, actually, Bruce Metcalf’s quotes read something like this:
on vendors at the 2007 Renegade Craft Fair in Brooklyn:
“. . . untrained. of the vendors that I spoke to at the fair, only two held B.F.As”
on the field of alt craft:
“I do not believe that there are self employed crafters”
“the average level of craftsmanship is low”
“many of my colleagues find the work to be dreadful”
Metcalf also spoke spoke of unprofessional displays, kitsch, a general lackadaisical approach and at one point even used the words “dry, airless, and boring”. my apologies, at this point, i was shaking in my seat from anger and was unable to jot down his exact words.
In Metacalf’s defense, he did speak positively of alt craft’s sense of community and political consciousness. But a general negative and almost mocking attitude continued throughout Metcalf’s talk. My blood boiled. I was horrified. Metcalf, a well-respected writer and TEACHER in the field of metalsmithing, stood before a SEA of people and summarized the alternative craft movement with complete ill-researched inaccuracies.
Had he done any research aside from his stroll through ONE craft show or a quick gander on Etsy? He must not have spoken to me, the ladies of Art Star, Something’s Hiding in Here, Figs and Ginger, Twigs and Heather, Megan Auman, Red Prairie Press, . . . i could make a very very VERY long list of alternative craft participants who hold b.f.a’s. or m.f.a’s and/or people who craft full time.
Furthermore and of MORE GRAVE CONCERN, what exactly is Metcalf implying here? that unless work is born out of b.f.a/m.f.a. hands that it cannot be valid? This ivory-tower mentality is exactly what creates an unnecessary divide and alienation between me, the new alternative craft to THEM (old alternative crafters?).
There I was. Sitting in this conference room with a broken heart. Bruce Metcalf is an elder in my field of choice - jewelry and metalsmithing. Here is an influential role model (and did I mention teacher?) dismissing and insulting my very joyous and successful livelihood.
But wait. There is a happy ending. Next up to present is Andrew Wagner, who we all know is the editor-in-chief of American Craft Magazine. I knew immediately that Wagner would be an alternative craft advocate when he opened his presentation with a video clip of Bad Brains live at CBGB in 1979 and then a still of Bad Brains was splashed across the screen reading “PUNX NOT DEAD!” In Wagner’s words, “punk rock is to music what alt craft is to established craft”.
Wagner spoke of the success of Etsy , the founders’ and members’ openness to learn about established craft, and the vibrant community of alt craft. More importantly, Wagner emphasized the need to develop a bridge between the ever-relevant alt craft word and established craft world through communication and support.
I am not yet sure what I will do about my Storque article. Perhaps I will withdraw it. Quite frankly, now I have no interest in playing advocate for SNAG. Perhaps in the future, SNAG organizers could show respect for us new alternative crafters by actually inviting an active participant to speak on the topic.
I have come to this conclusion: I am so proud of the work of us young “alternative crafters”. I feel so blessed to be a part of this supportive, open and ALIVE community. I am most proud to know that the generations of crafters to follow us will always be welcome. the most inspiring work that I saw at SNAG was that of students- thank you students, for always teaching and inspiring me!
I also want to thank all the folks at met at SNAG who are advocates of the “new alternative craft”:
Amy Tavern who spoke about indie shops and events
and
fin
xoxo
i hope you will leave a comment with thoughts on either your SNAG experience or the post. i am eager to hear!
Thank you so much, as always, for listening.
it’s so good to be back.
I personally think you should send this to both Metcalfe and SNAG. It’s very well written, and it would probably be great feedback for both parties. Thank you for sharing. It’s sad to see influential people making such uneducated presentations.
wow. this is an amazing piece. thank you.
I wanted to say that I agree with most of what you said. In fact I had posted about Bruce’s involvement with charting Alt-Craft inappropriately since 2007. I just want you to know, as well as your readers, that Bruce Metcalf’s opinions are not representative of the Society of North American Goldsmiths (SNAG). I spent much of my time at the SNAG conference talking to people who want SNAG to have a more inclusive tone, and to extend the hand of friendship to the Alt-Craft community. I invite you to read my latest post about the hope that I saw at the 2008 conference in Savannah. There are people with open minds and open heart out there still.
-Gabriel
I’m so sorry you had a crappy experience. Too bad this wasn’t an open forum in which you could have raised these contradicting points out loud, and made this Metcalf fellow look like the ninny he was being. Likely you would have been met with a room full of applause. So many times, when I tell someone what I do for a living, people’s first reaction is “Oh……what does your HUSBAND do?” and when I tell them he works at JHU, they assume out loud that he is the breadwinner, and “isn’t that sweet” that he supports my little hobby. We just filed our taxes, and for the fourth consecutive year in a row, I’ve made more than DOUBLE his income. To anyone who says crafters cannot be self-employed, I say “PPPPPFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTT”
On a side-note, while you were at SNAG, I was in Portland at the D*S hosted “Biz Ladies Meetup” and BOY did I hear the exact opposite feeling towards indie craft businesses! There IS a supportive community for crafters out there among people worth idolizing. Perhaps we need to just surround ourselves with the Grace Bonney’s of the world, and ignore the Metcalf’s. (Metcalves?)
Keep up your hard word. You are living proof that seminars aren’t always full of fact.
Annie, how interesting that you had this experience. I just came off of the American Craft Council’s Baltimore show, as one of the regular retail only vendors, and there was a huge grumbling amongst other vendors about the New Wave section, which was primarily alt/indie crafters. I was invited to be a part of it, but I’d already been juried into the full sized booths, but the grumpy people didn’t know that, so I heard a lot of things that were pretty nasty. One guy said to me, “But, does what they do even take any talent? I mean, are any of them trained?” Of course, I have no formal art training whatsoever, but I had a booth just like him!
Fortunately, a lot of this came out at the vendor meeting that Sunday. Andrew Glasgow, the new director of the Craft Council, was simply awesome. He is so supportive of the new wave in crafting, and did a great job answering the old guard’s concern about the new folks. I’m so pleased that the Craft Council is welcoming the new alt craft world into their folds, and it was really heartwarming to hear some of the more established artists say how excited they were to see the new people in.
Of course, there are still grumpy people out there. But a lot of it is simply born out of poor communication. Most of the artists I talked to there had never even heard of etsy, or Renegade, or any of the other major indie shows. I think the old guard in crafting will be more understanding and accepting of the new alt craft the more they know about it, and the best way to let them know about it is just like this, with blogs and articles, and conversations.
Interesting… I am sorry that you were taken back by this- No fun to go away expecting nothing like this…
However- I keep wondering why I am Not allowed to be a member of the local chapter of Craft Mafia? Is it because I do have a MFA? Am I too weird? Is it because I have a book and am too mainstream? I try to throw money at them for being a part of their vending shows and such- and well- I just get rejected for the Crafty world??!!??
WHERE does it all come from?
Hummm…
Hello Annie! First of all, it was so nice to meet you in Savannah and I so appreciate your interest in the talk Bruce and I gave. Secondly, I want to say that I really hope that you will publish your Storque article and that you will be as honest about your experience as you have been here. Etsy has such a large reach that it would really be powerful to get your feelings out there on that scale.
I’m sorry you had such a bummer of a time and I’m particularly sorry that it was our presentation that bummed you out so much! In defense of Bruce, I do want to say that I really believe that he admires the “alt-craft” world and if his talk came across as patronizing or belittling it was unintentional - I truly believe that. I hope you don’t mind but I’m going to forward your post on to him so that he can take a look and perhaps even respond.
I am very glad to hear that you enjoyed the Bad Brains clip that I showed and even posted it here! It still gives me chills every time I hear this song or see this video. You know, it is funny because I was talking with our creative director, Jeanette Abbink, here about the conference and our talk and I was explaining to her how I had tied in punk rock to the DIY movement and saying that you don’t listen to Bad Brains for their musicianship (or skill) and she stopped me and said, “but you very easily could - they are GREAT musicians.” And you know she is absolutely correct but they are not great musicians in the sense that maybe Yo Yo Ma is considered a great musican or Kronos Quartet are. But they are great musicians in perhaps an even better way, which is their music is not all about their musicianship which I think is another great point. They were able to communicate to vast amounts of people because they didn’t demand that those partaking in it were musicians themselves to enjoy it.
And I think that is another interesting analogy to alt-craft right there. While there are many talented and trained makers in the alt-craft scene, that training and talent is not what is first and foremost in much of the work. Rather, what is first and foremost is this level of communication that invites a viewer to experience the object on their own terms - there are no demands that you MUST like this object because the maker went to school here and studied with this and that person etc. etc.. And that is the beauty - this work is really putting the power in the hands of the people experiencing it as corny as that may sound - I know. Alt-craft and punk rock, in my mind, are both wonderfully populist (for the most part) and that is such a great thing!
So, thanks to Jeanette (our creative director) for reminding me that Bad Brains are not simply, loud, raw, emotional, fast, and furious but also extremely talented and thanks Annie for pointing out the same here about the alt-craft scene. I leave you all with one more thing…since it is nearly impossible to understand any of the words that H.R. (Bad Brains’ singer) is singing here are the lyrics…kinda cool too!
“Pay To Cum”
I make decision with precision
Lost inside this manned collision
Just to see that what is to be
Perfectly my fantasy
I came to know with now dismay
That in this world we all must pay
Pay to write, pay to play
Pay to cum, pay to fight
And all in time,
With just our minds
We soon will find
What’s left behind
Not long ago when things were slow
We all got by with what we know
The end is near. Hearts filled with fear
Don’t want to listen to what they hear
And so it’s now we choose to fight
To stick up for our bloody right
The right to sing, the right to dance
The right is ours… We’ll take the chance
A peace together
A piece apart
A piece of wisdom
From our hearts
Thanks for posting this. I wasn’t there, but I imagine I would’ve been just as annoyed as you. The whole “training” issue is so funny to me because it’s so nit-picky. I mean, if you spend several hours a week with torch in hand teaching yourself how to solder, that’s a sort of training. And if you sit around with a sketchpad at a coffeeshop and work on designs, that’s a sort of training. You may not have an instructor leaning over your shoulder or be responsible for turning in those sketches for a critique, but you’re still learning. So, why would a fine arts degree be such the holy grail? I think that’s just the way academia is structured. And I think Andrew’s right that you should submit your story anyway - it could open up a really important dialogue.
Annie:
first of all, this is great! i must say that we are very proud to be mentioned in your post and so inspired by what you encountered.
it may sound odd, but i often find my self quite motivated by people who do not see or understand the validity in something i am passionate about. for me, it is in those intense moments of frustration and counter-pointing that i realize how deeply connected i am to an idea or feeling. in this case… being crafty.
it is true, we both have MFA’s from a highly respected institution. our degrees are in many ways a value to us, but much in the same way previous jobs or friendships are. In the past year we left the “white cube” gallery scene and found ourselves at a craft fair… for us, there is no going back. we are in love with this community of inspiring, intelligent, and well informed makers.
i will agree, there are many crafters that don’t make the best decisions, don’t take enough care in presenting their objects and that have horrible craft… but the same is true for many “fine artist”. the list crafters that inspire me has far outweighed the long list of artists i have studied or met in six years of fine art school.
so thank you, for this great reminder that we are very lucky to be a part of this community of makers, also known as “crafters”.
Best Wishes,
Shauna & Stephen
Something’s HIding in Here
WOW! Thank you to everyone who commented either publicly or via e-mail.
Catherine: Yes, I will send this on to Bruce Metcalf (I believe Andrew has already done so!) and Snag. Thank you so much for reading and commenting.
Tina; Hi Tina! Thank you so much for reading and commenting. (Everyone- I owe my Etsy success to Tina’s awesome advice. Seriously)
Gabriel: Thank you for stopping by and writing! I was hoping you would catch a whiff of this post and comment! Also, Thank you for the work that you do on your blog. (This is not my usual writing vein, it’s not easy work- bravo to you!) I will have to admit that I have not yet worked through your post about your SNAG experience, but will do so shortly. Your experience may have been more positive than mine, but I am still somewhat skeptical of the SNAG attitude towards alt-craft. Along with the Metcalf and Wagner lecture, I also attended the Open Spaces Dialogue where Megan Auman and Amy Tavern fielded questions on Web 2.0 and Indie Craft. In my opinion, the vibe there was not unlike the one at the Metcalf and Wagner lecture. Seeing as how these were the two designated venues to talk about alt-craft, I can only conclude that this is the general SNAG attitude. Don’t get me wrong, I did meet people that are interested and supportive (Harriete Estel Berman, for example), but they seemed few and far between. I do hope I’m wrong about this. (One of my favorite moments from your blog: “Bruce, can I call you Bruce? love it .)
Rachel: There was a Q & A period after the presentation. There was only time for four questions. I did approach Bruce Metcalf afterwards to introduce myself, tell him that I have a B.A. in jewelry and metalsmithing, sell on Etsy and at Indie shows AND am self-employed. I also let him know that I was reporting on his presentation for Etsy. I then asked him if there was anything he would like to add to his presentation and Bruce said, “I’ve said everything I have to say”.
Caitlin: Hi! What a unique experience you must have had at ACC- being an indie crafter with a full-size booth! Thank you so much for sharing. I’m pleased to hear that there was a chance for ALL the exhibitors to come together to voice their concerns, because you’re right- whatever disconnect that exists between the “old” and the “new” is due, in part, to a lack of communication. This is why I wish that SNAG had asked an alt-crafter to participate in the panel.
Jane: Hi Jane! I’m always so happy to see your posts on my blog! To answer your question about Mafia membership: As we have stated before, we have the largest Mafia chapter in existence. There are over a dozen of us. Our meetings now often last many, many hours and to be truthful, it is a daunting task to keep this many people organized and focused. In order to put on spectacular events and shows, we have to stay as focused and organized as possible. Thus, we have no new members. However, the last thing we want to do is to be exclusive. That is why we plan workshops and events that the whole community can participate in. We try REALLY hard to be inclusive- it is one of our main concerns and I am so sorry if we have ever appeared or been otherwise. I will definitely bring up this point at our next meeting.
As for the craft shows we hold- we receive over triple the amount of applications than we have space for. (WOAH). So unfortunately, we cannot accept everyone. Also, there are THIRTEEN jurors, so the reasons for acceptance/rejection are never cut and dry.
Jane- you know you are my craft superhero, right?!!! you must know this? i’m not kidding.
Andrew: Hi! I’m so happy that you stopped by and left a message! Yes, please pass this post along to Bruce, I would love to talk to him as I’m sure we both need clarification. And I’m sure anyone would want to speak in his own defense after being called a ninny!
You said it all- Who knew that Bad Brains could work so well as an analogy??
Thank you for your encouragement and support. This means so very much to me. I will be submitting an article to Etsy after all. Also- Pay to Cum is now my studio anthem. I hope you are blasting this in the office as well!
Laura: So nice to meet you Laura! Thank you for your encouragement! I agree with the statement you made on your blog in reference to this post: “it all seems like academic snobbery to me”. I’m off to see the video that you have posted and look forward to reading blog!
Shauna and Stephen: Hello! I love this:
“i often find my self quite motivated by people who do not see or understand the validity in something i am passionate about. for me, it is in those intense moments of frustration and counter-pointing that i realize how deeply connected i am to an idea or feeling. in this case… being crafty.”
You could not have described my feelings better. Thank you so much for listening and making beautiful objects AND posts!
we heart imogene!
This is such a great dialog - thanks so much Annie for starting it!
I agree with Gabriel, there were many people at the conference who participate in the indie community, and who were offended about Bruce Metcalf’s sweeping generalizations about that community.
I think as the next generation of jewelers and metalsmiths, it is our job to help define SNAG. We can’t sit around waiting for the “established” craft community to be the bridge - we have to be the bridge.
I think both communities could learn a lot from each other if we stopped making assumptions, had an open conversation, and realized that essentially we all come from the same place and are working towards the same goals.
megan
ps - I also posted some additional thoughts about this on my blog. Thanks again Annie for starting a great and worthwhile conversation!
Sorry, back again after re-reading some of the comments.
Annie, I don’t think the questions that Amy and I fielded were indicative of SNAG’s general disdain for the indie community, but rather from an attempt to understand what is going on in this new movement.
You and I are so steeped in the indie community that everything is clear to us, but to many at SNAG, it was their first time hearing about this, and it can be overwhelming. I also have to constantly remind myself that not everyone processes information at the same rate, and some people just need more time to understand what is going on.
I think the more people sat SNAG see and hear from the indie community, the more they will understand.
Heee- YOU are SUCH a dear~!
Oh my-
It seems that I enjoy eating worms in dark corners and feeling sorry for myself at times- especially on Monday’s stuck in an office! Haaa~
So sorry for being a poop… I do understand… really-honestly.
I can’t help but think about this post however- which is fantastic- because it is such a hot topic! On the way to work- I heard that this topic:
“11:00 Richard Sennett: “The Craftsman” (Yale)
Craftsmanship today can be more than just ‘skilled manual labor.’ A sociologist explains how computer programmers, artists, parents and citizens all are craftsmen in their own right. How doing a job well for its own sake gives everyone the potential to be a craftsman”
Is going to be on http://www.wypr.org/ at 11:00 today…
I am so glad you posted this~ and as for me- Hehehee- blush! Thank you.
I look forward to seeing more topics about this~
(You should write your article)
xxooxx
Hi Annie,
I think you misunderstood me. First, I think the whole range of alt-craft is a very good thing. I tried to frame it as the true wave of the future. When I spoke of “dry, airless and boring” shows, I was commenting about mainstream craft shows like Philadelphia and Baltimore. Furthermore, I was not condemning alt-craft for its appropriation of kitsch-far from it. I love kitsch, at least the kind I see in DIY and alt-craft. (That is, ironic and unserious, like the paint-by-number clock I showed.) As for self-employment, my comment was that relatively few people who sell work on Etsy are making a living selling their crafts. Is this true? I don’t know for sure, but anectdotal evidence suggests it is. Is this a condemnation? No. It is interesting in light of the claims being made that domestic handmade goods can meaningfully replace goods made in overseas sweatshops, though.
As for my colleagues finding alt-craft work “dreadful:” this is true. But if you followed my talk, a good part of my point was that they are wrong to think so, and they had better pay attention.
About training: my assertion could be wrong. My point was that the vast majority of sellers on Etsy and at the alternative fairs don’t seem to have a great deal of formal training in the craft they are practicing. As you point out, my survey sample is small. However, another member of the audience confirmed my sense. Even the BFAs and MFAs in the alt-craft world often have earned their degrees in other fields. Yes? No?
As for the low level of craftsmansdhip at alt-craft fairs: this is my perception. It is not, however, a condemnation. Really fine craftsmanship is expensive, and is often surrounded by claims to sophistication and refinement. Have you ever been to a SOFA exposition? Very high levels of craftsmanship abound there, and much of the work is bad. So where does that leave us?
Some of the most vigorous craft in the 20th century was funky and untutored. Take Alexander Calder’s jewelry: he never trained as a jeweler, and yet his work is astonishingly inventive and endlessly delightful. Or take Sam Kramer. Or Madelaine Yale Wynne. Or Janet Payne Bowles. Or J. Fred Woell. None of these men & women practiced high craftsmanship, but their work was wonderful. So, when I say that levels of craftsmanship at the alt-craft fairs are low, I am not condemmning anybody, I’m just making a neutral observation. That’s the way it looks to me.
In a 25 minute presentation, I can’t explain every nuance in detail. All I can say is that I think alt-craft is a corrective to everything in mainstream craft that has become too academic, too introverted, too refined. Mainstream craft has entered a decadent phase, I think, and alt-craft is a blast of fresh air. Sorry you didn’t hear that in my presentation. If you would like the text of my speech, I would be happy to send it to you, and perhaps you might reconsider.
Best, Bruce Metcalf
Hi Bruce!
Thank you so much for responding to my post. As I said in my reply to Andrew’s post, I know that we both need clarification.
Firstly. I would like to apologize for misquoting you. I had not realized that you had used the words “dry, airless, and boring” to describe mainstream craft shows.
I see that you still believe that few people who sell work on Etsy are making a living selling their crafts. You ask, “Is this true?”. I stated in my original post that “I could make a very very VERY long list of alternative craft participants who hold b.f.a’s. or m.f.a’s and/or people who craft full time”. Obviously, I haven’t done statistical research analysis on the EXACT number (though now, I may). My point is, YES, your assumption indeed sounds like a condemnation- as if alt-craft does not hold enough value in the marketplace to support an individual- as if it is merely a hobby.
You state,
“As for my colleagues finding alt-craft work “dreadful:” this is true. But if you followed my talk, a good part of my point was that they are wrong to think so, and they had better pay attention.”
Bruce, In fact, I DID follow your talk and I never heard a call for a change of heart. To me, it seemed you wanted your colleagues to “pay attention” because this “dreadful” art was gaining in popularity and they had better watch their backs! Excuse me if i misunderstood this point. It was difficult to gather this when you compared alt-craft to bad 60’s macrame (at which point the audience erupted in laughter). Maybe you can see why I perceived this as mockery and skepticism.
You seem to be unwavering in your perception of “training”. I will reassert what I said in my original post:
“I could make a very very VERY long list of alternative craft participants who hold b.f.a’s. or m.f.a’s and/or people who craft full time.
Furthermore and of MORE GRAVE CONCERN, what exactly is Metcalf implying here? that unless work is born out of b.f.a/m.f.a. hands that it cannot be valid? This ivory-tower mentality is exactly what creates an unnecessary divide and alienation between me, the new alternative craft to THEM (old alternative crafters?).”
What is your opinion about the latter part of the above quote?
Thank you for connecting alt-craft with historical jewelry roots. I see now that when you state that the level of craftsmanship is low that you do NOT mean to make a condemnation. I want to tell you though that this was NOT made very clear in your presentation. Can you agree that when presenting to a group of people who do not know much about alt craft that a comment such as “the overall level of craftsmanship is low” can be steeped in negative judgement? I also wonder why you did not include any images of alt-craft jewelry in your presentation?
Thank you so very much for taking the time to clarify your point. I hope that the next time SNAG wishes to present on the topic of “alternative craft” that they will call upon an individual who is more invested in the movement to speak along with you.
And Yes! May I please have a text of your presentation? my email: annie@imogene.org
Annie, you have started such a great dialogue, and I love that Bruce Metcalf, Andrew Wagner, Gabriel Craig, and everyone else is here to chime in. This is exactly what needs to happen. It’s one of the benefits of controversy–it gets people talking. Angrily, excitedly, calmly, negatively, positively–it’s talking. All of these dialogues that have started in the last few days has inspired the writer in me (something that’s been under the table since my college days). Thank you Annie, and to everyone who is “talking”!
Annie - I appreciate your daring and eloquence. You are stirring up quite a necessary and overdue buzz!
I love reading all of this, and have to salute everyone involved finding time to respond, or even to read all of this. I believe at least one point is proven: That there is definite community and conversation in the craft world– even if it’s sometimes in debate form. The difference between the two movements of craft has always been hard for me to explain or define to my non-artist family members, and I really applaud you Annie (and Bruce Metcalf, and Andrew Wagner and Gabriel Craig…) for starting the discussion and staying in it.
great article on an important and often touchy subject in the craft community. thank you for writing this and sparking the conversation.
i hope others will take a look at the review of the american craft council show in baltimore that rania (aka goshdarnknit) posted to the crafty bastards blog. i know caitlin and megan exhibited at the show and maybe even rachel, too. would love to hear your thoughts on the ACC show and the whole “new wave” definition.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/craftybastards/2008/03/08/new-wave-and-were-not-talking-the-80s/
sara - thanks for the link to craft bastards blog post. i hadn’t seen it yet.
it was really interesting to hear what regular exhibitors at ACC thought of the new wave section. Ironically, as a searchlight artist, I was given a huge, FREE booth space, which no one complained about, instead everyone was complaining about the new wave artists paying $300 to be crammed in a corner.
I thought the new wave section and the searchlight section were some of the most interesting work in the show, but I know a lot of people who didn’t go into the new wave section because it was always so crowded, and people weren’t buying a lot in searchlight because it was too much like a gallery. So much for encouraging these new artists to want to exhibit again.
To be honest, I was a little annoyed about the new wave section, but mostly because I thought, why can’t it just be part of the regular show. Myself (though I was in a slightly different position), Caitlin, and Ali of pistolstitched all applied to the regular portion of the show, so why couldn’t the other new wave artists. But I place the blame squarely on ACC. If they really wanted “new wave” artists in the show (and I hate the term, “new wave”) why not just encourage them to apply. Perhaps the ACC needs to have a more formal assistantship program to make it more financially possible for emerging artists of any kind to participate in the (overpriced) show.
But the biggest disappointment of ACC was really the audience turn-out. Obviously, adding the new wave craft section didn’t really help the poor attendance that has occurred the last few years. And why would any artist want to pay over $1,000 for a booth to stand around and talk to their neighbors when you could pay $200, or even less, to do a show where the line to get in stretches around the block?
Hi Julie!! I’m a huge fan of your work! I had no idea that you are in Savannah! Thank you so much for stopping by and commenting. I love the story of your academic experience that you posted on your blog. Today I will have in my mind the words “keep going” “keep going”. It’s the best advice. I’ll see you in Philly next year!
Hi Sara! I read Rania’s article on my layover in Charlotte on the way home from Savannah. I couldn’t BELIEVE the timing! I appreciated her completely honest review. I’ll be in touch with you!
I have to agree with Rachel- Thank you SO MUCH to everyone for taking the time to read through these posts. heavy stuff! And for everyone who has posted either publicly or via e-mail THANK YOU. I will be responding to everyone. As I said before, this is not my usual vein and I’m INCREDIBLY happy and so APPRECIATIVE of your comments! xoxo.
I’m curious what the actual turn out for the show was. I talked to a lot of people who said they were there soley for the New Wave section and Searchlight, and only shopped the regular booths because they were there. It seems that New Wave brought in a lot of customers who normally wouldn’t go to such a big upscale show, so that’s a big positive in my mind. I certainly can’t complain about the turnout since my booth was packed for the whole show, but I didn’t get to walk around too much, so I don’t have a good overall perspective.
I hope next year more and more alt crafters do choose to apply to the regular ACC show through the juried process, but this year at least, the New Wave invitation was sent out after the acceptances for the regular show were already done. It would be great next year to have an integrated New Wave section, or possibly signage like the Green Craft signs this year, and maybe have smaller half booths available for comparatively less. I have to say, I don’t find the booth fee to be unreasonable, for the caliber of the show, and I wouldn’t trade down in booth size to save money. But, not everyone, especially jewelers, needs as much space for a booth. I guess the New Wave was meant to feel more like a marketplace than a formal show, and it did succeed in that, but it was tough to shop in such a smalll space.
I’ve wanted to go to snag for years and was quite engaged by this year’s exhibition schedule and talks so your review is rather interesting and wonderful in the dialogue it has encouraged.
While a less then all-encompassing and warm embrace is less-then-exciting I can see it as less-then surprising as well.
I haven’t had a chance to read through all of the comments, though I am very interested to and will provide more input when i can read it all in detail. I missed most of this lecture as we were leaving Friday morning and were getting ready - though by the q & a that we did catch, I could gather much of the feeling of the lecture. I was pleased to hear megan’s comments stating the education of many did include BFA’s and MFA’s. - though its been my personal experience that there are many talented and successful metalsmiths who do not have either!
Overall my SNAG experience (and it was my first one) seemed to reaffirm one aspect of what you can do in the art field - be academic. I was really glad to see all the lectures on wed. that were geared towards different aspects of the art and crafting world, but still overall, SNAG is very academic. For those of us that choose a different route, it felt like a lot of the lectures and information given were interesting but not helpful.
I do think this is a very good discussion and will come back when I have a bit more time.
Thanks!!
i too have strong feelings about the education issue. i have a very strong education… just in something other than what i do now. i went to a very competitive prep school and then to a well regarded (seven sister) private college. at my school they did not offer such things as “alt craft”, it was strictly liberal arts. there was a very small art department which i utilized to a great extent. but i majored in Art History and Film as that is what i could do there. I had no idea metalsmithing existed at that point (from a career standpoint). in fact, my great grandfather was a brasssmith and if anything i was educated in such a way that i should NOT take on somethig considered a trade, but rather a profession, such as doctor or lawyer. it came to me after years of working as a professinal in graphic design and wanting to work with my hands. at the point i started doing it i was already in my 30s and the idea of going back to school was just a severely impractical one. i could not afford to go into that kind of debt, nor to live at that level of poverty. mr metcalf’s idea of what it takes to be a “professional” requires an artist to know at the age of 18 that he/she wants to do this for the rest of his/her life and commit to it from that point forward. this seems extremely unfair and single minded. i consider my background and education to be a huge asset as far as th work i do now. and i would never tell someone they could not be an art historian or a filmmaker just because they didnt come to it until later in life. is julian schabel DIY and not to be respected because he chose to make film as a second career? and what of the artists who rejected their formal training to embrace the primative (Dubuffet)?
i take a lot of “craft” classes, i have just never done it in a full-time matriculated manner toward a degree. i simply can not afford to (nor do i choose to) take 4 years off and do that. but i am eager to learn and continue to do so. I learn through continuing education, places like Penland (what a resource!) and fellow metalsmiths. there has to be room in this community for that. and i think my attitude, and that of many others in the field and on Etsy, is quite different than someone who simply sticks pre-fab things together. THIS is what I consider to be DIY.
i am a lover of punk music myself and as a side note would like to mention that this lecturer is not the first to talk about punk as DIY. Not only are there a series of records available on the subject (http://www.amazon.com/D.I.Y.-Series/artist/B000AQ3GXC/ref=ntt_mus_dp_pel) , but there was an exhibit at the EMP in Seattle about 7 years ago to that effect. I do appreciate the sentiment though. and to follow the thought through… does that mean that in 20 years the “alt craft” these gentlemen are disparaging will be just as established as the rest and coopted by the mainstream such as punk is now?
Hello there! The conversation continues! Pretty amazing but I’m super glad to see this topic pick up so much steam and to see so many people contribute to it. Just to clarify for Nina (above) I never claimed to be the first to draw the parallel between punk rock and DIY and said as much at my talk…I merely used it as a reference point for my talk and as an apt analogy. Another point I want to make is that in no way was I (nor was Bruce) disparaging the DIY/Alt-craft scene - in fact it was quite the opposite (particularly from my stand-point). I also want to say that I don’t in anyway think that punk rock has been co-opted by the mainstream…for every Blink 182 (whom I actually like quite a bit embarrassingly enough) there is a Bang Utot (defunct now) or a Thrice Fucked. I believe the same to be true of the DIY/Alt-craft scene. It will always exist and in fact, probably always has. Regardless, I really just don’t buy the whole co-opting thing on the whole and we actually got into that a bit at the talk…I believe that it is possible to be successful within the “mainstream” and still remain true to your ideals and we can look at plenty of examples from across various disciplines. Success or popularity does not a sell-out or co-optation make…
Anyhow, I also just wanted to direct anyone who is interested to one of the best articles I’ve read about this whole disconnect between various sanctions within fields and professions.
http://www.printmag.com/design_articles/your_design_here/tabid/214/Default.aspx
The article is by Virginia Postrel and I think more readily addresses the ‘old guard’ craft world’s fear of the “alt-craft” scene but is pretty terrific any way you slice it. Enjoy and keep the conversation coming…!
Hi Annie,
Hmm. More clarifications seem in order.
Throughout my speech, I made a very clear distinction between mainstream craft - in which I count myself - and alt-craft. I thought the way I introduced it was a clear indicator of my respect: “Populist, upbeat, and almost completely foreign to the conventional institutions of craft, this stuff interested me.” Even by calling it alternative craft, I underlined it’s position as apart from the establishment. Later, I said, “My opinion is that there’s tremendous energy and optimism in alternative craft. I think the established craft community…would do well to look at this phenomenon with an open mind.” I thought that was a very positive assessment. Populist, upbeat, energetic, optimistic: how is that not good enough?
My estimations of the levels of education in the alt-craft community and how much money they make may have been off, but frankly, it doesn’t matter. The important points I was trying to make lay elsewhere. But if you want to correct the record, please do so!
The quip about macrame was to remind all the baby boomers in the audience (who pooh-pooh alt-craft for its low aesthetic quality) that they and their peers made some awful stuff in their youth. Again, to quote: ” Some of my acquaintances can’t stomach alt-craft, finding much of it crude and unsophisticated. But the Renegade Craft Fair reminded me of nothing so much as the sixties… [T]he craft establishment should remember that 60s craft was often crude and irredeemable ugly… Remember macrame?” The point of reference was to the generation now in their late 40s, 50s, and 60s, not to the makers of alt-craft. I was reminding them to be humble.
However, there seems to be a very sensitive issue here. Do you seriously believe all the work on Etsy and in the alternative craft fairs is good? I don’t.
And I don’t expect it to be. Alt-craft is full of experimentation. People jump in and do things, without long periods of training and practice. They just want to try things out, and they find an appreciative audience. That’s the upside: the great energy, the openness, the freedom. But that’s also the downside: the naivete, the lack of expertise, the widespread imitation.
Those last three criteria may not matter to you, and it’s entirely possible that they should not be applied to the alt-craft scene. But you have to understand what my frame of reference is. I know a great deal about the history of American studio craft, and I know a modest amount about Western decorative arts in general. I know about some of the really great work, and I know what world-class craftsmanship looks like. I have held a Faberge Imperial Easter Egg in my hand. This work is tremendously accomplished, refined, sophisticated. And it exists somewhere along a continuum on which alt-craft is also located.
Andrew’s point with the punk-rock analogy is that that ultra-refined craft should not be compared to alternative craft, and I agree. But still: isn’t there some kind of qualitative judgment applied even to Punk? Is all of it equally great? Aren’t there degrees of authenticity, or inventiveness, or pure raw energy? Don’t people have favorites for a reason? Aren’t there some Punk bands that endure, and others that are forgotten? It’s no coincidence that Andrew chose the Bad Brains: they’re a classic Punk band. As with Punk, so with alternative craft?
Ah, yes. The quality question. One of the things I was suggesting in my speech is that alt-craft must be understood on its own terms. One must be open to to semiotics of American Pop culture, to irony, the appropriation of kitsch, and to radical politics to really get alt-craft. One can’t dismiss micro-capitalism. One must be sympathetic to grass-roots democracy in action, and be willing to accept a certain degree of rawness. These elements, among others, are possible criteria for good alt-craft.
Rawness, just like in Punk music. And frankly, rawness equates with “a low level of craftsmanship.” You tend to see an insulting note in the phrase, but to me it’s a statement of fact. And, I might add, a familiar tendency in the history of American craft. Low craftsmanship has continually brought fresh energy and new aesthetic directions to craft. (See my comments about Calder in my previous posting.)
Could the audience at SNAG have misunderstood, and thought my comment about low levels of craftsmanship was a condemnation? Yes, I suppose they could. (You did.) But I DID NOT SAY LOW CRAFT IS BAD. Perhaps I should have expanded on the comment, knowing it would have touched a nerve… but I was trying to cover a lot of ground in a short time, and I let it go.
In some ways, I think alt-craft trades in inversion of the old received truths. Does craft have to be all polished and refined. Umm…No. Does craft have to be presented in slick booths, with halogen lights and perfect visual consistency? Again, No. Does craft require a 5-year training period? Should craftspeople aspire to mastery of material and technique? No, and No. All I was doing was pointing at some of these inversions, and saying that they are part of a long historical continuum.
Obviously, I hit a nerve in you and others in the audience, who detected a note of dismissal. But I take alt-craft quite seriously, and I respect its democratic, transgressive nature. I was trying to say, as clearly as I know how, that alternative craft represents the future of the whole field. And since the mainstream doesn’t get it, they had better start paying attention NOW.
Here’s the conclusion of my speech. If you still think I was disparaging alt-craft, then I don’t know what else to say.
“Almost everything about alt-craft challenges the conventional wisdom of mainstream craft. The mainstream - largely populated and guided by baby-boomers, has become totally invested in building and maintaining a set of standards - particularly of quality and professionalism. And here’s the sad truth: those standards are killing craft. Juries for craft shows, rules of what’s allowed and what’s not, principles by which teachers critique their students - all these standards make the new kind of craft look amateurish, or sloppy, or insufficiently aesthetic. But these old criteria are emphatically NOT THE POINT. The only conclusion I can reach is those standards must be changed or given up entirely.
“Is my generation up to it? Having gained the wheel of control, are we prepared to say that we now represent the old guard, and we must step aside so all of craft can prosper and grow under a new regime? I don’t know.”
Please send me your address, because my speech was hand-written, and I can’t email it to you.
Bruce Metcalf
Bruce -
just to clarify my point about the DIY music was more for Annie and her audience. I wasnt at the lecture so I really didn’t know what the context was. But thank you for your insights.
While I am at it though, it brings to mind the dichotomy of the movement though. I mean you had bands like the Talking Heads…art school graduates; and then you had the Dictators and the Ramones… just kids from the city. All of that music is great, and all of it holds up today.
and to my point about the punk stuff being “co-opted” what i really meant to point out is that many of those musicians who were considered outsiders back in 77 are now household names. so while they didnt have the respect of the mainstream rock community back in the day… they earned it because despite the fact that they were not schooled musicians over time people respected them for their talent and ingenuity. getting out there, working in the field, and refining your craft on your own… whatever it is… can lead to some remarkable work.
It really comes down to fear. If someone can come a long and train themselves or train in workshops and acquire a skill successfully; what does that say about the cost of their education? How do they validate it to themselves? The Ivory Tower complex is why so many of us have chosen the alternative craft industry in the first place.
This sort of thinking makes me thankful that I do not need to answer to anyone but my customers who seem quite happy with my “little hobby”.
- Full Time Metalsmith
Bruce, I sincerely appreciate that you came back to clarify and that you took the time to write such an explicit response. Thank you for letting us all know that you were not meaning to be disparaging of alt-craft and for admitting that there was a population of the SNAG audience that “detected a note of dismissal”. -Thank you!!
I made my way all the way down to Savannah to hear you speak because I have the utmost respect for your work. The fact that we don’t see eye to eye on this matter does not change that.
I am stunned. I’m just a girl with a blog. I blog everyday, often multiple times a day. I do have a small readership, but I would say that I receive an average of one comment per post! What an amazing experience this has been to talk and meet all of you- I had no idea that something like this would unfold! When I wrote this post, I was very hurt and wrote it completely from my heart. After all this dialogue, I stand by my original post.
After all this punk-rock talk. I’m going to end this comment on another note. My favorite Indigo Girls quote:
The best thing you’ve ever done for me…is to help me take my life less seriously…its only life after all…
xoxo!
I’ll be back tomorrow to say Hi! to everyone who left a comment today! thank you!
what a great dialogue!
thank you, annie, for starting it off!.
and thanks to the many eloquent speakers here for finally verbalizing the vague impressions i’ve had about the disparateness between the fine art community and the ‘alt-craft’ scene (never heard that one before- and what the heck is a ‘new wave artist’?
for me, a BFA in jewelry making was a shortcut to realizing my desire to produce and sell my own designs…if i’d done it wholly on my own, the road would have taken many more twists and turns- possibly for the best, if i’d stuck with it. i am a huge advocate for life-long learning, but i really wanted to immerse myself in metalsmithing…so i did!
(and i’ll be the first to tell you it was the most self-indulgent thing i’ve ever done!)
(frankly, though, art school was pretty light on the technical training….)
all the while i was in school, i was frustrated by the trend towards heavily conceptual work. a few years after graduation, my friend was telling me the latest gossip about the who’s who of the the conceptual/fine art community…then she looked at me and said ‘you don’t care about this at all, do you?’ nope!
my interest was always realizing fresh and unique wearable designs that people could and would actually buy.
(it’s shocking to me that no one else i went to school with (that i know of) is making a living with their jewelry!)
after i graduated, i discovered the DIY/etsy scene in portland, OR. it was like coming home!
my work may seem raw to some (though i prefer to think of it as ‘enthusiastic’) but other people love it and cite me as one of their favorite jewelers.
it’s all relative. how true about the continuum!
anyhow, i’m exhausted and probably not making any sense at this point. just wanted to thank you all for the engaging debate and add my data to the in/formal sample set…
xoxo
Caitlyn (great name!), the New Wave artist discussed in this thread is a reference to a special section of crafters at the most recent Craft Council show, who were all alt or indie crafters, and had similar disparaging experiences at the ACC show from the established “mainstream” crafters.
So, Annie,
It sounds like you are not convinced. I’ll just say I intended no offense, but neither did I intend to lead a cheerleading session about alt-craft. I talked about it exactly as I see it.
Could I have had the facts wrong? Well, yes. So I propose a two-part deal.
One, let’s find out what the facts are. (Frankly, both of us are making unsupported assertions.) I think a small survey (about 25-30 respondents) would suffice, if the sample was random and the survey was simple and concise. We could find out how much formal training people have received in the crafts they practice, and what degrees in craft (if any) they have received. We could also find out what percentage of them make a living at their craft.
Since you’re a respected member of the community, I think a survey would have more credibility (and get a higher rate of response) if it came from you. I’m willing to help draft questions and design the survey. I think it would be pretty straightforward and simple to do.
If this survey indicates I’m wrong -and I have specific numbers in mind- then I’ll apologize publicly and profusely, and correct the text accordingly. A letter to the SNAG Newsletter or Metalsmith would also be appropriate.
If I’m right, then I think you would need to modify your position.
For my part, I’ll type up my SNAG speech exactly as it was delivered, and offer to post it on your website. People can then read it and draw their own conclusions, instead of relying on hearsay.
What do you say?
BTW, April Wood was a student of mine last summer @ Penland. If you’re going to her opening, please give her my best. I won’t be able to make it.
Bruce
as someone who is totally self-taught i find this discussion feeding into so many of my personal self doubts. i was never exposed to metalsmithing and i never had the opportunity to formally study it (but i do have a BS in an unrelated field) prior to starting a family. i have recently found that i enjoy working with metal and i should not feel the need to justify my choices or talent.
and to constantly reiterate that alt craft is not polished and not refined is simply not true. i am amazed at some of the talent i see at shows and to find that many of those artists are self-taught is even more impressive.
(and annie, thanks for starting such an interesting discussion)
Wow, it has been quite a week watching this conversation develop. It is nice to hear from all sides of this debate. Annie thanks for being such an advocate for the community.
I can honestly see where someone from outside of the “alt-craft” movement might be put off by an initial overview of the scene, or be offended that some of these artists are quite successful despite not having 3 degrees or 20 years experience. It has not always been possible for serious crafters and hobby crafters to sell in the same venues. Maybe this is a case of one bad apple spoiling the bunch for Bruce?
I know my work is not FINE craft, but I am honored to have the chance to sell right along with jewelers like Annie and Megan. This movement is as much about the ideas as the workmanship. Sometimes the idea outweighs the workmanship and vice versa… No mater our level of experience, we should be grateful to outlets like Etsy that we all get a chance to make a sell what we love in an attempt to make a living.
I kind of look at this alt-craft movement argument as reminiscent of the uproar over the beginning of Impressionism in 19th century France or even Rock-n-Roll in 1950’s America. Sometimes cultures need to think outside the box in order to evolve.
I feel that there needs to be a bit of context in the case of both ACC and SNAG. While some of the attitudes that were exhibited regarding indie craft were due to fear of change, part of the problem is long-standing conflict existing between artists and these organizations.
In 2004, I exhibited for the first time at the ACC show in Baltimore, and I was very excited. I felt is was an honor to among so many artists that had such standing in the field. A few weeks before the show, I found out that there were people circulating petitions and agitating to stage a protest at the show. Imagine my horror. I just wanted to show up and hopefully take some orders, how could they do this to me? Could the problems really be so bad?
Well, after my fifth show, I have seen that despite the wonderful things that the council purports to be about, they are oblivious to the welfare of the artists that pay most of the operating budget through booth fees. When I talk about “they”, I am not talking here about the staff, but the board, from which this attitude emanates.
As an artist, I would really like to see the ACC be a strong organization with diverse programs covering many aspects of craft. However, at present, it is an organization struggling for relevance. As part of their attempt to gain relevance, they decided to introduce the “New Wave Craft”, to the show. Is it because the Renegade Craft Show was written up in the NY Times a few weeks before and they wanted to catch some of that buzz?? The method of seeking these new exhibitors, was done in a manner that seemed almost designed to alienate their non-new wave exhibitors.
I was one of the only exhibitors to hear of this new wave section before the application was due and this is only because I happened to read about it on a blog. The original press release did not indicate that the $300 space was not a full booth and the application proceedure consisted of e-mailing 3 lo-res pictures with no application fee. To top it off, the application e-mail was supposed to say”I want to get rad in Baltimore”, well, gag me with a spoon! When I forwarded this press release to my fellow ACC exhibitors, it set off a forestorm of calls and e-mails and the orgization was forced to send out a clarification e-mail stating that the $300 was for a table only.
To contrast with this, to apply for a regular booth, one needed to have professional photos taken and to pay $30 for each section of the show applied to. The competition to get into the show is fierce. Artists with work in the Smithsonian museum get rejected from this show and the arguements about the jurying system are lengendary and rancourous.
Into this steps the unknowing indie craft artist. Much like myself four years ago… excited to be there, and completely taken by surprise by the level of dissatisfaction and hostility between the various parties. Not to mention that the ACC did a disservice to these indie craft artists by placing them in a makeshift section that was plopped down amongst the rest of the show. So, with all of this in mind, I think it will be easier not to take it personally
Now on to SNAG. This is an organization that has long been focused on the world of academic metalsmithing. Having been a member for years, I have also had the feeling of alienation. There has long been a call for SNAG to be more inclusive in regards to those of us that are called production jewelers. I stick with the organiztion because of my curiousity about what is happening in all parts of the field. This sometimes means that I find myself in the position of defending production work to the academics and the academic to the production jewelers. It is pretty clear that the struggle that some of you felt to defend your position at SNAG stems from this longstanding rift in the field.
One more thought.. isn’t it well known that Bruce Metcalf loves to stir up the pot and create controversy? It looks like he has excelled this time, and it gets people talking, which is good thing…
Natasha
Wow. I need to step back a bit and re-read this entire comments section! I’m also going to forward it to a few people who are interested in the aftermath. For now, I can say that as one of the exhibitors in the ‘new wave’ section, I was very disappointed by the way the council handled this, as well as some of the veterans of the show. It saddens me that so many things were kept secret, exploited, and ignored.
Bruce- I understand now that you meant no offense.
Please feel free to post the entirety of your presentation here on the blog- that would be wonderful! And dare I say that this very dialogue that we are all participating in serves as a sufficient survey? These are the facts and sentiments of 21 people thus far-including you and Andrew. Bruce! Can we agree to a cocktail together in Philly next year?!
To everyone who posted: I’m still working through the comments! Thank you!!!
[…] wrote about in Handmade 2.0 and the more established/traditional “fine craft” segment: Here is a pretty interesting post and even more interesting series of comments about a presentation at a […]
I’d like to add a few cents from another ACC exhibitor in the full-price booths. I agree with Natasha that part of the resistance to the “New Wave” craft section at Baltimore has to do with today’s economic reality: each year, there are fewer shows that attract buyers willing to buy high price-point items, a limited number of booths at each of these shows, and fewer buyers at each show willing to spend fewer dollars. We’re already all in competition with each other for these buyers/dollars; throwing in folks who have lower overhead and (generally) lower price points only adds to the anxiety.
Remember that many of us who were there for the whole week were paying close to $2000 for a 10×10 booth, plus electric, plus transport, hotel, etc. For most of us, what we lay out for a show like Baltimore is a painful chunk of change. Just as you might resent finding out that the person sitting next to you on the plane paid 1/7 what you had for a ticket, many exhibitors felt snookered by the wild difference in price between the two types of spaces. There was also some resentment of the fact that a few of the “New Wave” exhibitors were in fact quite experienced (at least one had been a regular ACC exhibitor in the past), which made the section just seem like a shortcut around the jury system/high booth fees.
The jury system has many flaws — I think we can all point to exhibitors who are there year after year not because they are doing good work, but because their work is instantly recognizable to jurors, and therefore goes into the “admit” category almost automatically. Let’s be completely clear: being in the full-price ACC booths doesn’t mean that your work is first-rate. However, if we’re all in one show, why should there be two different jury systems?
It may also be true that some work makes more sense in one venue than in another. You can see that as a value judgment, or simply a practical reality. I would have a hard time in a show where the average price point was under $100; that show probably wouldn’t attract buyers who are willing to pay what I charge for my rugs when they can buy well designed and inexpensive imports. I get that. People who sell really well on Etsy or at indy craft shows (and if they are self-supporting, more power to them — it’s damn hard to do) have found their markets. ACC may not be the right venue for them — there may not be enough buyers at a show like ACC who appreciate their work. But again, if we all get in the same way and pay the same freight, it’s a level playing field.
Some more history: ACC used to have a “Mentor” program, in which experienced wholesale exhibitors paired with newbies (unlike the “New Wave” exhibitors, had to be first-timers at a wholesale show); the experienced exhibitor got $500 off his/her booth fee; the newbie got a free booth for the wholesale-only portion of the show. The program also involved fairly detailed training and support about what it meant to wholesale your work. It seemed to respond to the store owners’ desire to see new work without requiring a newbie to plunk down the big bucks before knowing whether or not they would get orders their first time out.
That program no longer exists, but the ACC seemed to be hoping that some aspects of the mentorship would magically happen with the New Wave exhibitors, without creating the kind of structure they’d had with the Mentor program. On the first day of the retail show, ACC left a letter in the booths of regular exhibitors saying, among other things, that there was nothing the New Wave exhibitors wanted more than to meet and learn from the old-timers. But the ACC failed entirely to set up any kind of mentor relationship or opportunity for the two groups to meet and talk. I’m sure that contributed to the sense of hostility the “New Wave” folks experienced.
I think it’s also important to dispel the notion that the full-fare ACC exhibitors are all baby boomers. I’d love to see some actual statistics, but from my informal, unscientific observation, there are many, many exhibitors in their late twenties and early thirties.
And although I am a boomer (at the very tail end of the boom, I hasten to say) I came to full-time weaving with absolutely no formal training. I have two degrees in English. I took one 6-week weaving course when I was fourteen and have been weaving ever since. So I am not at all arguing the necessity of degree programs. (I regret not having the experience of art school, if only because I wish I’d had that kind of time to experiment with different techniques without having to worry about economic practicality.) However, I do value dedication to the mastery of one’s chosen materials/process, and I don’t equate that with snobbery. (On that subject, I find it funny that Andrew uses Yo-Yo Ma as an example of a musician who requires you to be musically knowledgeable in order to appreciate his work. I can think of few classical musicians who have crossed as many genre boundaries as Ma, and have been as welcoming of audiences of all backgrounds.) And, like Bruce, I think it’s important to know what’s going on in your field, so as not to do things that have been done many times before.
Again, these are issues that can be resolved as each person finds the marketplace that works for him/her– I hope we can all find ways to sell the work we love to do without disparaging one another’s choices.
Jeanne
Jeanne (and everyone else for that matter) thanks for the thoughtful comment. I wish I had more to offer as far as the Baltimore American Craft Council show goes but unfortunately I am not as in the loop as I’d like to be on that aspect of our undertakings. However, one thing I can say, was that the “New Wave” section of the show was intended to attract a segment of makers who we honestly believe are part of the next generation of craftspeople who will carry on not only the traditions but also push boundries and move craft practices forward.
These are people who we felt would probably never dream of trying to take part in ACC shows. We wanted a way to introduce them to this facet of the market. Yes, they paid a smaller fee but their space (as pointed out numerous times) was significantly less than glamorous. In your terms, if I’m flying first class, seat 1A, I don’t resent the fact that someone in coach seat 34F, is paying 1/7 of what I’m paying. Again, I’m a bit out of my realm talking about the shows but I wanted to offer what I know - that this was an honest attempt to get two groups talking who might rarely have the opportunity to engage. And in our defense, please remember that this was our first time trying this. We live and learn and through listening to what everyone has to say, we hope that next year will be that much more successful for all involved. In Andrew Glasgow’s (new executive director) words, “we can’t be scared to make mistakes.” I believe Andrew G. is right on in that assessment but I also think it is now our responsibility to learn from any mistakes that may have been made…always make “new” mistakes, but do your best never to make the same mistake twice.
Last thing, you are absolutley right about Yo Yo Ma…that was a bad choice there…he definitely and clearly cut across many boundries and regardless of whether your a musician or not he will move you to tears. Let’s see, maybe Claude Debussy would have been a better composer/musician to single out there???
What a great dialogue, and certainly passionate as well as intelligent. As an ‘outsider’ in the sense that “I’m not a crafter but date one in real life”, sadly I have picked up the vibe between parties quite easily. Having been selling in the New Wave section (sans bad 80s hairdos and synths) at ACC, I definitely felt an awkwardness towards the section. I’ll let Margaux elaborate, as I just want to comment on the ’sampling’ Bruce mentions.
I’m a full-time graphic designer/ web designer, and working at a company always striving to be competitive and cool in the web 2.0 world (hint: 3 letters, first one A, last one L). I used to see a split in thinking everyday, however the company is much younger now. Of course, the “old-skool” thinking in internet terms is more like 5-15 years ago, not 30. And yes, we are starting to succeed in some areas, but no, never enough. I do what I can, along with many great minds in our offices, to keep us relevant (thus allowing me to keep collecting a paycheck).
The dot com boom and bust led all of us on a wild ride in the 90s. I wanted to be a designer realizing I may be able to make a living doing something creative, hooray! Fact was, I got out of school and blam, the bubble bursted. Bear with me, I’m getting to my point
The last 10 years have brought on innovation purely driven out of necessity and competition, and the internet was the canvas. Recessions do amazing things.
During this time, Napster started to rule the music world, and music labels freaked. What the technology did to music distribution and creation also did to a lot of other artistic outlets. Thus years later we saw Etsy come on the scene, not because someone loved craft necessarily, but someone saw an untapped market that would benefit from a venue that made it easy to sell your wares. Hell, it’s that same ease of use that we all have blogs, Flickr accounts, Facebook pages, and iPods. And it’s that passionate link between technologists and artists that has created the perfect storm.
With that, the reason why the sampling of 20-25 people isn’t quite enough is simply because the slice is too miniscule compared to the thousands of crafters out there now. Funny how it correlates to Moor’s Law with computer processor speeds: exponential growth. The last 5-10 years have seen a surge of crafters, writers, painters, designers, musicians, photographers, and, surprise! STUDENT LOANS! My BFA cost me a lot (and prob will for years to come).
That is why you have the type “A” people that see Etsy as an opportunity for themselves to make some quick cash on poorly created products while they attend high school still, and type “B” people getting their BFA/MFA and do whatever it takes to create beautiful pieces that sell big and market to a world that will embrace them. Guess what? Etsy caters to both of those types, not to mention type C, D, E, F, G… etc. Unlike years of juried selections at shows like ACC, Etsy doesn’t handpick their sellers because there’s no limited space to get in. But the indie craft fairs do, and that’s what will separate the dedicated artisans from the con-artists.
If the “old-skoolers” want to learn something from the “new skoolers”, it’s certainly their sense of enterprise, communication, spirit, and drive. Do you think it’s easy going up against thousands of rip-off artists when you’re not even fully established yourself? Community between the passionate ones is everything for survival, essential. It’s also what the punks taught us with their beautiful photocopied flyers, constant gigging, and raucous scene: great work ethic!
Despite the large numbers of crafters, law of averages tells us there is an amazing selection of greatness. However they got there, the ideas that flow are truly inspiring. Thanks Annie for this post, and to all the great responses!
I just want to jump in and say THANK YOU SO MUCH for starting this dialogue Annie! I have enjoyed reading every. single. word. (whether I’ve agreed with what’s been said or not) So many valid points have been raised and the attention this is receiving only underscores the importance of this discussion in craft.
I was one of the ‘New Wave Craft Artists’ at ACC and admittedly had (and am still having) mixed emotions about the experience. I was really excited about the show beforehand: ecstatic for the opportunity to have been accepted to - and be able to afford - to take part in such an established, reputable craft show. However, I was quickly surprised and discouraged by all the drama surrounding this new initiative.
I have fond memories of attending the ACC show as a student… feeling immensely inspired by the exhibitors with metalsmithing skills FAR beyond my grasp at the time. I saw these people as my heros, living examples of what I could someday achieve! I wanted to be just like them: making a living doing what I love. I thought I had found MY people.
That said, I also remember feeling distinctly overlooked and ignored by MANY exhibitors upon entering their booths. Because I was obviously young, it was assumed I was not a buyer and therefore not ‘important’ enough to pay attention to. It’s true, I was a student, there to admire. And of course I understand it’s a buying venue and they are there to make sales. However I still feel that a simple “hello” or even a smile would have sufficed. I made a promise to myself then and there that I would never become one of THOSE artists. I would, at the very least, acknowledge all those who chose to “enter my booth” be they student, buyer, admirer, etc.
Years later, I attended my first ever SNAG conference in Denver Colorado and experienced a similar mixture of jaw dropping awe/inspiration as well as disappointment. I was among many of the greats and jewelry artists I had long admired. Yet, the entire conference had a “secret society” air that for me felt very exclusionary. Even though I was wearing a badge with a gold star distinguishing me as a “First Time Attendee” not one “established” member introduced themselves. (I wonder if I may have had better luck mingling sans gold star?) Even though I had been supporting SNAG, Metalsmith magazine, and the Craft Council since college, the conference did not make me feel at all connected to “my field” or my peers. Truthfully, I have struggled with feelings about SNAG ever since.
I’m a blogger, an etsy member, and most recently: a retail craft show vendor, though I have been exhibiting my work in galleries since graduating college with a BFA degree. Whatever you want to call it: indie, alt-craft, new wave, blahblah etc… I have never felt so accepted, embraced and connected as I do here amongst this community of crafters. I recognize there are those in the “establishment” who do care deeply about embracing new blood (and I believe based on his comments in this dialogue that Bruce Metcalf IS actually one of them) however they seem few and far between.
Anyway, “right on” to all this. These conversations are what inspire me and others to become more involved in changing the craft organizations and finding ways to bridge the gap between the old skool and the new. Communication is key. It’s great that we can all share in our experiences and talk about our various viewpoints in such a respectful, open dialogue. There’s certainly no lack of PASSION regarding what we do and that alone makes me feel hopeful.
Andrew, a minor point — next ACC show, come hang out with me while it takes me 7 hours to unload my truck, lay my floor, deal with missing pipe-and-drape and/or missing electrical service, hang my lights, set up my booth, etc. and then tell me whether you think I’m flying first class. Being an exhibitor is a no-frills flight, believe me. Well, at some shows they do give you free bottled water and pizza during move-out. That’s nice. But generally you don’t even get a tiny bag of peanuts.
Cheers,
Jeanne
Jeanne:
“There was also some resentment of the fact that a few of the “New Wave” exhibitors were in fact quite experienced (at least one had been a regular ACC exhibitor in the past), which made the section just seem like a shortcut around the jury system/high booth fees.”
…Really? Who were these “experienced” New Wave exhibitors that had been regular ACC exhibitors in the past? I wasn’t aware that any of us had ever done an ACC show before. Perhaps you could provide their names?
Jeanne wrote:
“On the first day of the retail show, ACC left a letter in the booths of regular exhibitors saying, among other things, that there was nothing the New Wave exhibitors wanted more than to meet and learn from the old-timers. But the ACC failed entirely to set up any kind of mentor relationship or opportunity for the two groups to meet and talk. I’m sure that contributed to the sense of hostility the “New Wave” folks experienced.”
- Actually, the sense of hostility came from some of the show veterans hanging out in the new wave section with less than pleasing remarks. I expected the comport of some of the ‘full price booth’ artists to be as refined as their craft, but alas, no.
We were fortunate to have met 2 very wonderful and supportive veteran artists of the show, and that pretty much saved it for us. And I dare say that we will be applying for a “full price booth” next year - We will not let this experience dissuade us.
Cheers
Nancy
[…] Imogene’s Review of SNAG […]
Hi Jeanne….I was only referring to the size of your space vs. the “new wave” craft section. I think both sections amenities are pretty bare-bones. I think the mentor program you mentioned sounds pretty interesting. I’m not sure why that was eliminated (before my time I think). Anyhow, again, I don’t know too much about how the shows operate so I shouldn’t say too much about that but I do know that the ACC is not an evil empire out to milk everyone dry. We are doing what we can to navigate often choppy waters in order to try and move the field forward and it is our (at least my) hope that discussions like this will assist in doing that (not just for the ACC but for everyone involved).
On another note, I just wanted to say that the thing that I think is the most encouraging to see in all of this is Annie (from Imogene) stepping into that bastion of old-guard craft (SNAG) and Bruce Metcalf (my speaking partner and esteemed Old Guard craft “elder”) stepping into what seems to be a comfy home for “alt-craft” (namely this blog). I think that is what is most important - people stepping out of their comfort zones. Admittedly always an intimidating proposition but it’s amazing what you tend to learn about yourself and others when you finally do! And that really gets to the crux of what I think is interesting about this conversation - it is not just about craft, this tension can be found everywhere (as Dave points out above) and you can take that simple idea (stepping out of your comfort zone) and apply it anywhere. Good stuff!
wow. great to see this still going! thanks annie!
i encourage anyone interested in discussing their acc experience to comment on rania’s acc review:
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/craftybastards/2008/03/08/new-wave-and-were-not-talking-the-80s/
or send me an email: sdick AT washingtoncitypaper.com
especially all you former crafty bastards! really want to talk to you and get your perspective.
Congratulations, Annie, on stimulating a very interesting exchange.
The stories from the “New Wave” exhibitors at the Baltimore ACC show tend to underline what I said at SNAG: the craft establishment is not very receptive to alt and indie craft. At Baltimore, some of the older exhibitors apparently felt the price structure was unfair, and felt threatened that the lower price points in the “New Wave” section might undercut their business. (I’m certain there was also muttering about bad work.) What they don’t understand is that the “New Wave” exhibitors were invited to participate because the ACC must develop a new, younger audience. The retail shows have to get under-35s through the door, or attendance figures will continue to decline. (As in, to a point where it will no longer be economically viable for the ACC to produce the fairs.) That’s the plain truth of the matter. Those who bitch about the presence of the “New Wave” crafters and the discounts they received don’t get it.
Anyway, I want to set the record straight on one thing: I absolutely do not believe an art school (or university) education is innately superior to any other way of learning a craft. Here’s what I said in my speech: “Exhibitors and sellers [at alt-craft fairs and websites like Etsy] are mostly young and untrained…” I suspect Annie took exception to this remark because she thinks it’s untrue, and she wonders what my motive be for making a false claim. I still think it’s true, but that’s another issue. My concern here is that I said nothing (and intended nothing) to suggest a value judgment about kinds of education.
The history of American (and British) studio craft is full of individuals who taught themselves or who learned in informal settings like the home or co-ops. The most extreme example is probably William Morris himself. Over the years he taught himself how to embroider, to illuminate manuscripts, to block-print papers and fabrics, to dye textiles, and to weave tapestries. In many ways, he was the ultimate DIY guy. I am filled with admiration for Morris, and everybody like him.
As for the craft BFA/MFA system, it only came to existence around 1950. It’s good for some things, and bad for others. One of the things the BFA/MFA system is rather poor at is preparing people to earn a living at their craft - but there are reasons for this. In my opinion, it also places too heavy an emphasis on art-making and art-thinking. I wish it was more open to design, for instance.
But the BFA/MFA system is not the final arbiter of all things craft. Forget that! Please! There are other kinds of craft that do very well outside of that system, kinds of craft that have their own intentions, their own histories, their own contexts. Even their own cultures.
As something of a scholar of craft, I think it’s valuable to look at all kinds of craft and understand them for what they are. (Warts and all, if you know what I mean.) I believe understanding fosters two hugely important things: acceptance from outsiders, and self-knowledge for insiders.
Cheers,
Bruce Metcalf
Interesting debate. Just wanted to commend Jeanne for this;
Bruce - Your comment about “exhibitors and sellers being untrained” struck a cord with me as well. In fact, I was the one who asked a question about it at your talk.
I’m just curious to know, what is your definition of “training”? I believe that could clarify a lot of the discussion.
Hello…just thought I’d let you know that I posted a bit on this whole topic on our site including a bit of the back-story about how this all came to be (Bruce’s and my talk) and a very interesting response to all of this from Garth Johnson from extremecraft.com. Check it out if you have a moment:
http://americancraftmag.org/index.php
Oh yeah, we just updated our whole site to reflect the current issue of American Craft that just came out and it looks pretty damn good if I do say so myself! Enjoy!
Hello! I just wanted to pop in and say I’ve enjoyed every minute of reading this discussion. And as a “fine artist” ( I have a mfa in photography and digital art- and honestly not sure where that has got me!) who is taking a leave from academia to pursue my craft, this discussion is so very relevant. Particularly in this scary “recession” time, where I am leaving a perfectly good teaching job (only for a year, but hopefully for good) to take a chance on myself and try to make and sell things to people that they don’t really “need to survive.” I thought the New Wave Craft section was fresh and exciting, as well as the Searchlight Artist section. At first read of the posts I was dismayed and a little angry, much like Annie. But as the discussion has evolved, I feel more of a challenge and an invitation to be better, more visible, and more inclusive. And thanks for the “Bad Brains” references- I finally can have a sensible discussion about the band with my husband- a die hard fan. Keep it up!
Lord knows I try to stay away from controversy as much as possible but Andrew forwarded this conversation to me and I’m really intrigued by this conversation.
Is there a transcript, podcast or video of this talk? I’d love to see it and then weigh in. I think there’s a very important discussion to be had here from different viewpoints: those of us on the editorial side, the “professional” artists, DIY full and part-time crafters/artists and then those who are simply DIY appreciators/buyers.
Grace
just wanted to say thank you, annie, for starting this discussion. it’s been very eye opening and has also confirmed my feelings about parts of the craft field. i really hope this dialogue continues and pushes us all further.
I’m still surprised that people were upset over the price difference in booth sizes for the ACC show. Yeah, 2K is a lot for a full booth, but the difference it makes in sales is huge compared to the tiny spaces they got for $300. I wouldn’t take a space that small for $150 if I had the option of a full booth! Customers could barely move in the New Wave section, no room for inventory storage, no decent lighting, no cushy floor coverings, I could go on and on, but really, the price I paid for a 10×10 was well worth it and helped me make it all back and much more.
And I also disagree about the competition for customers dollars. It’s an unfair assumption to say that the New Wave artists had lower overhead and lower priced items. A good half of them had an average price point higher than mine.
Oops, submitted too soon.
Anyways, yes, customers only have a set amount of money, but there will always be someone with items less expensive than yours. Customers don’t come to the ACC shows to shop for bargains, they come to find the best crafts in the country, and bringing the New Wave artists in, in my opinion, was an excellent way of upgrading the selection of work. It gets really boring to see the same silk and quilteds jackets in every other booth. (my apologies to all of the fashion designers from ACC, your work is beautiful, my mother buys jackets every year, but you must admit, there are an awful lot of you…)
I think the animosity towards the New Wave section was really a shame, the nasty comments I heard about their perceived lack of talent and training were purely speculative and don’t hold up at all compared to the quality of the work displayed.
And then there was me with no BFA, a self taught indie crafter to the core in a full sized booth, but because I paid full price, I’m ok. So, does this mean if everyone ponies up 2K, they’re in the club? No one questioned my talent level or education.
Hey all,
Two things:
1. I concur that this dialogue is amazing. After this thread gets old how will we continue with this conversation? At SNAG Andrew Glasgow gave a Keynote address about the necessity of collaboration for the future of craft. I am taking this to mean all craft: indie, alt, mainstream, renegade, established, or otherwise. Since I know Mr. Wagner is reading this here is what I propose:
ACC or American Craft Magazine should sponsor an online discussion forum. www.Craftforum.org? Its not taken. Let’s take what has started here and turn it into something exceptional and permanent (although I am sure that Annie loves the traffic on her blog, sorry ;-P). What do you say?
2. Bruce, I kind of feel bad for you. I know that your intentions are good. What I have been trying to say for a while now seems to have been evidenced here. The fact that your are from an older generation and your are part of the established craft world works against you in terms of street cred. By all means keep saying what you are saying, you have every right to, but don’t expect to really change anyone’s mind. Surely you remember in the 60’s when anyone who wasn’t part of the solution was part of the problem? Bruce you are “the man” and your esteemed career will never endear you to people who have a punk rock mentality. Its not that the good people posting here are closed minded, it is that you are coveting something that is not yours.
-Gabriel
We are Heather and Kerry Alice of Twigs and Heather. We were part of the New Wave Craft Section at the ACC.
We are also proud to be part of the Indie craft community.
We applaud the ACC for trying to bring new blood into their craft show.
The members of the ACC were welcoming and excited to have all of us there.
They know there is great talent in the indie craft world and want to see their show change with the times.
Bruce, on the other hand, felt the need to talk about how there was next to no talent in the Indie craft world.
He obvoiusly didn’t do much research because you do not have to dig very deep to find amazing artists…all kinds of artists doing craft shows all over the country. I think that Bruce’s speach did more to hurt his own reputation than the Indie Craft world’s reputation. We are obviously passionate about what we do, supportive of eachother in a way that alot of the old school crafters may not have experienced in a long time, if ever.
[…] “DIY, Websites, and Energy: The New Alternative Crafts” seems to have ignited a craft blogosphere firestorm. Andrew Wagner, the editor at American Craft surveys the dissent in light of what he presented that […]
As an old zinester, this threat brings up memories of DIY debates in that community—about the nature of refinement, training, and production, and when does a line get crossed between mainstream and alternative. So, I thought I’d toss in a quote by Dick Hebdige out of Subculture: the Meaning of Style. For me, it dovetails voice with production technique:
“The language in which the various manifestos were framed was determinedly ‘working class’ (i.e. it was liberally peppered with swear words) and typing errors and grammatical mistakes, misspellings and jumbled pagination were left uncorrected in the final proof. … The overwhelming impression was one of urgency and immediacy, of a paper produced in indecent haste, of memos from the front line.”
I am wondering if, just by the scale, price point and DIY quality of alt craft, that there might be an inherent desire to keep things a little rougher around the edges.
I’ve spent the last 2+ years shooting a documentary about the D.I.Y. community called “Handmade Nation”(currently in post-production) I have a companion book with the same name coming out in November published by Princeton Architectural Press. I am also an artist/crafter/maker, I own a brick and mortar shop called Paper Boat Boutique & Gallery, I coordinate an indie craft fair called Art vs. Craft and do independent curating. As a semi-side note since education seems to be prevalent in this discussion I would also like to mention that I am 30 years old, a high school graduate with no further education, no formal training, 100% self taught and self motivated.
I think this is a really important dialog that is long overdue within the indie community; the “fine” craft community is obviously further along with their open dialog, thoughts and options about the indie community, the younger generation of “crafters” and the future of craft. We may of set ourselves back a bit by not discussing a lot of the above topics sooner, but as far as I am concerned now is a great time to start (and I know there has been discussion’s here and there don’t get me wrong).
Our community is so broad and vast that it is very difficult to define, clarify and pinpoint. Our community has taken the word “craft” and uses it freely, carelessly, and uses it without restraint and without out definition. This seems to drive a lot of people nuts; I personally love the vagueness of it. What effortlessly ties us all together is the motivation, passion and empowerment to create creative work.
Before my response to a few selected statements I want to share a quick option about the “fine” craft movement- as a boutique and gallery owner I would NEVER carry a lot of work that was available at the Baltimore show in my shop- well crafted or not. It is not my taste, nor the taste of the many customers who shop with me. I find most of the “fine” craftwork out there I consider to be embarrassing, ugly and dated. Just like a lot of “fine” crafters think work from the indie community is untrained, dreadful and boring. So this aesthetic difference of option seems to be some sort of block between us. Is it possible to set aside our aesthetic differences to learn from one another? I really hope so.
In 2007 I went to New York for the re-launch of American Craft Magazine and visited the Council’s office for “Blogging the Handmade” a segment of their summer salon series. Not only did I get to interview Andrew Wagner but also now ex-director of the Council Carmine Branagan requested a meeting with me. After our 15-minute meeting went into 45+ minutes, I felt that the Council was truly interested and invested in reaching out to our community. It made me realize, sadly, for the first time that both of our communities had so much to benefit from each other. This meeting also reminded me about the importance of solidarity between the creative thinkers of our country. We are in a desperate time politically and the drastic lack of arts funding will effects us all, especially the generation to come.
I am looking forward to reading Bruce Metcalf’s talk if it gets republished here. There were obviously some statements that were misunderstood between speaker and audience- but he did make some pretty brutal point that I feel compelled comment on.
B. Metcalf: “So, when I say that levels of craftsmanship at the alt-craft fairs are low, I am not condemning anybody, I’m just making a neutral observation. That’s the way it looks to me.”
My response: This is not neutral at all. How can someone who considers themselves “something of a scholar of craft” be neutral to the topic?
B. Metcalf: “However, there seems to be a very sensitive issue here. Do you seriously believe all the work on Etsy and in the alternative cr